Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Could this happen here?


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 432
Date:
Could this happen here?


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54425

So if you live in Germany you have no right at all to homeschool your kids?

The family that had their daughter taken by the government forcefully and placed into foster care and 'rehibilitiation for her school phobia', now is being faced with their other children being taken away, because of the 'christian culture'.

This is very disturbing, and even moreso with the thought that in Massachusetts a family who sued the school for the right to not have their kids forced to 'learn' about 'families of all kinds' was turned down, being told they have no right to interfere with what the public schools teach to their kids.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54420

Maybe I am overreacting, but this really struck a nerve.

-- Edited by Pt314 at 14:16, 2007-02-25

-- Edited by Pt314 at 15:37, 2007-02-25

__________________
I think, therefore I exist. - Rene' Descartes


Senior Bucketkeeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 1288
Date:

Truly scary.


__________________
no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done


Understander of unimportant things

Status: Offline
Posts: 4126
Date:

Not defending the action at all, as it is scarey when looked at through our rose colored glasses. But, we need to remember this is a different country that does not have the same level of societal freedom as we enjoy in the U.S.

What I found telling was how the judge referred to it as a Christian organization. Having served a mission in Germany 20 years ago, that tidbit is quite telling. I'll share with you how. In Germany, there are three levels of religious groups. First, there are the State churches, Katholisch and Evangelisch (Catholic and Lutheran). These are churches for which if you are a member, the government collects a church tax. They are referred to as Stadt Kirchen. The only option to stop having the government collect your "tithing" is to "austreten", or to renounce you membership in the church. Next, there are state recognized churches, or Stadt Anerkant, and there are probably half a dozen or so. The LDS Church is one of these. After WWII, the government, in gratitude to the help the Church did, offered to make it a State Church, but the Church politely declined saying it did not need the government to collect a 5% or 7% tax on its members, that they donated 10% voluntarily. Stadt Kirche and Stadt Anerkant is different, but both carry certain legal rights non state recognized religious organizations don't. With state recognized churches, the religion as legally legitimate, but it is not a state sponsered church. A state recognized church and it's clergy have much the same legal rights as a state sponsered church and it's clergy, and the religion can practice fully as legal entities. Missionaries and priesthood leaders have to / get to carry papers that show they are official representatives, and it allows them to get in places to perform their ministerial duties. It is pretty cool whippin' out the papers to show "gatekeepers" at a Catholic hospital that they have to let you in to visit your investigator! Then, the third level is anything the state does not recognize. They really have no legal rights to do anything as a religious organization other than meet. The society looks down on them in general as Sects -- or cults in our culture -- in very much the same way as a Jim Jones thing. You can't just start a church out of your basement or family room in Germany the way you can here in the U.S.

My guess is that this family are members of one of these sects. Hence, they do not have the legal right to school their children outside of public or parochial (catholic or lutheran schools) settings. For that matter, I don't even think that the state churches run regular schools in parallel to public schools. And, from a religious standpoint, being catholic or lutheran is about as meaningless to most Germans as it is for a Jack Mormon to be LDS... It is almost an ethnic thing, if nothing more than tradition or heritage.

Anyway, sorry to be so long winded. As said, I find this to be less than ideal and somewhat disturbing as well. But, if folks are going to get all up in arms about it here, they need to understand more about the culture it is coming from and not just buy in to the hype of an article written with no or little understanding of the culture it is happening in.

"Germany blatantly spurns parental and human rights and cannot be regarded any longer as a free country. It is running more and more to tyranny and dictatorship."

This statement is probably true (particularly if I felt it 20 years ago as a young missionary)... and part of the reason it has done so is the fact the people so often in the past have turned to their government to fix problems rather than fixing themselves. Policies and law that are the result of reactionary knee jerk politics will further this on exponentially. Think about what goes on here in the U.S. and what "issues" fit that model here before casting too much aspersion on Germany.

__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."


Profuse Pontificator

Status: Offline
Posts: 775
Date:

That was fascinating.   Thanks, Cat.

__________________
I'm not voting for Ron Paul because it's not expressly prescribed in the Constitution.


Senior Bucketkeeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 1626
Date:

Cat, thanks for providing the background--it helps to understand the home-school thing better.

I was in Germany at Ramstein Airbase for several months.  I remember talking to a small group of German Saints after church one Sunday.  I expressed my appreciation for the beautiful landscape, the clean and organized towns, and the delicious food.  I half-jokingly said, "Maybe I'll retire to Germany and enjoy the rest of my life here."  They were all shocked.  They told me that the government is involved in every aspect of social life e.g. you have to get a permit to have more than six people attend a party at your house, or you have to get a permit to have an outdoor BBQ.  They all said they wished they could have the kind of individual freedom we have in the States.

__________________

The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 432
Date:

Interesting perspective CH and Roper.

I am really grateful for the freedoms we have in the United States.

Cat Herder, what is the advantage to being a state sponsored church, instead of a state recognized church? Does the government use tax money to help them out or something?

__________________
I think, therefore I exist. - Rene' Descartes


Understander of unimportant things

Status: Offline
Posts: 4126
Date:

It is hard to explain...

This kind of talks some about it, but I'm not sure how accurate a description it is.  Actually, this article in wikipedia does tell a little about either the situation you described originally or a similar one in a fair context of how things work in Germany as far as education.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany

This article tells is a little clearer on the "tiers".  The LDS Church is a Körperschaft des öffentlichen Rechts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_religious_freedom_in_Germany

And this tells a little about the concept of state taxing the population for churchs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

And, an interesting thing is there is a religion called Neu Apostolische (New Apostolic) that is pretty strong in Germany.  It started in England shortly after or about the same time the Church was formally organized.  Originally, it had doctrines and beliefs very similar to ours.  But, it was not started under The Lord's authority.  It is the biggest counterfeit in belief and organization to the Church one will come across.



__________________
It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard