How long had you been dating your spouse before you knew he/she was the one that you would marry?
She knew after about two months. It took me about eight months.
How long had you been dating before you were engaged, and how long was the engagement?
After dating for eight months, we got engaged. On her birthday. Our engagement was five months long.
At what point did you know that life's choices had finally led you to someone you could spend eternity with?
The day before her birthday, I knew. I proposed the next day. I wanted to get married the following day, but we had that whole coordinating-with-her-mom-for-months-to-prepare-for-the-wedding-and-reception stuff to go through. Plus, becuase I had been previously sealed, we had to get sealing clearance from SLC to be married in the temple. That process alone took over four months.
Were there complications that kept you and your spouse-to-be from getting engaged? (e.g. finances, school, mother-in-law, etc.)
I was really cautious, because I had only been divorced for about a year, and I wanted to make darn sure I wasn't going into another relationship just because I was tired of being alone. She hit it off great with my kids--after two months of dating, she and the kids were ready. It took another six months for me to feel ready.
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
First official date, I knew she was the one... it took a few months to convince her. (She even tried to dump me... God actually intervened and kept her from doing it...)
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
I knew she was the one the second I laid eyes on her.
We were engaged to be married 10 days later.
We were married 6 months later.
I was called as bishop of a ward 2.5 years after that.
I love her more than anything else in this world.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
Mahonri wrote: I was called as bishop of a ward 2.5 years after that.
I don't mean to be unkind, but what does this statement have to do with the question or the rest of your answer?
Bok, I think what he meant is that the Lord was eager for him to get a wife so that he could call him as a Bishop.
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
How long had you been dating your spouse before you knew he/she was the one that you would marry?
I knew (actually we both knew) by the second "official" date that there was the strong potential for something to develop. I knew I was REALLY interested by the end of the evening at the Young Adult dance we met at...
How long had you been dating before you were engaged, and how long was the engagement?
We had dated about two months before we made a commitment to seriously consider go on to become engaged. We were then apart for 4 months and then became engaged. Our formal engagement was only about 5 months until we got married. We were married about 10 1/2 months after we met as adults (we know of each other as teens). Logistics and circumstances dictated most of the timing.
At what point did you know that life's choices had finally led you to someone you could spend eternity with?
Spiritual confirmation(s). Life experience with her since has provided the quantitative supporting doco to those earlier qualitative confirmations as well. :)
Were there complications that kept you and your spouse-to-be from getting engaged? (e.g. finances, school, mother-in-law, etc.)
No.
I'm just curious.
Curiosity killed the cat, so they say, at least it ended up getting the Cat Herder married nearly two decades ago...
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
How long had you been dating your spouse before you knew he/she was the one that you would marry?
I knew after the first date. Strange but I knew.
How long had you been dating before you were engaged, and how long was the engagement?
About 4 months and about 6 months. In spite of all my faults and idosynchrasies she never gave up on me during that time. The woman deserves sainthood for her patience with me.
At what point did you know that life's choices had finally led you to someone you could spend eternity with?
I don't know.
Were there complications that kept you and your spouse-to-be from getting engaged? (e.g. finances, school, mother-in-law, etc.)
Financially we were dead broke. I was in college, had a part time minimum wage job, some scholarships, about $2000 in the bank, and a car that was paid for. I had no debt which was nice. The scholarships and some money from my parents paid for my college so that wasn't an issue. My wife was working full time so she was the primary bread winner while I went to school. She also had a car with a very modest car payment and very little debt, maybe $150 on a credit card. So none of these complications really prevented anything. My mother in law wasn't too happy and made things initially difficult during our engagement but after a while she was fine. She would break down in tears and scream at us, "Why are you doing this to me?" and "Why can't you give it more time" etc. It was ugly. My father in law basically ignored me and continues to ignore me to this day (almost 14 years after we were married). The mother in law actually thinks I'm a pretty good guy because all these years later, I'm the only son in law who is actually sealed to their daughter and the only one that wasn't previously married with a few extra kids from the first marriage. It isn't too hard to look like a hero in comparrison even though one of the other guys is pretty good and his previous divource was the first wife's fault. I get along with him pretty good. My father in law, when he wasn't ignoring me liked to find fault with my choice of school and my choice of major. He didn't think much of business majors and told me my degree wasn't worth as much as an engineering degree and that my classes were too easy etc. This from a guy that was an enlisted navy guy with no college at all. Funny thing, he ended up going to the same school after he retired and majoring in Engineering and then switching to business. I took the high road and never pointed out his obvious hypocrisy.
We just keep plugging away so all those obstacles must not have been that tough.
Bok: just that life moves right along.... and quickly at that.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
My wife insisted on a long engagement. I think that is such a horrible idea. If you know it's right, I like to quote EDG who says it takes only 20 minutes to get married! :) Okay so maybe it takes a bit longer to book the temple, but still, I think couples who have long engagements are nutz... speaking from personal experience...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Long engagements may be easier to deal with when the two are not in the same part of the country and can't be with each other nearly every waking moment they aren't at school or work... Less risk of, well, ahem, you know... the need fer pa to get the shotgun down...
But, too short an engagement is not great either. An engagement should not be so short that you haven't had the chance to see your betrothed in less than the ideal circumstances of you being all googly eyed in the chemical rush of romantic love. You need to see how they operate in a variety of situations and under stressors to get to know their personality, traits, and habits better. You need to see how they are around children. You need to see how they are around their family. You need to get to know the family (because try as you may, they do come inseperable from the betrothed... it's a package deal). You need to see how they are in relation to committment to the gospel and church. If your courtship consists of nothing more than cuddling and the associated allowable physical affection (when everyone is on their best behavior), you may not be approaching it from a mature enough perspective or allowing sufficient time to develop the other facets of a relationship. You need to make sure you are in love with the person you are going to marry, and not in love with the idea of being in love or in love with the idea of getting married.
Unfortunately, the adversary has taken that point of wisdom and turned it into something completely wrong... the trial period... let's just live together for a while and determine if we're compatible before getting married... Besides, outside the church, a large number of folks have "consumated" the relationship already prior to getting engaged...
What the falsehood there is that the two already are compatible if they have been dating sufficiently to have developed a healthy relationship. A commitment is just that... a commitment. Taking a trial run without a commitment is not only wrong in the way things are meant to be done (as ordained by The Father), but is actually an anti-commitment in which they agree that they can get out of the relationship as if it were a no-fault for any reason. It just compounds the problems that arise from sharing what they are not supposed to share until legally and lawfully wed.
And I'm babbling... aren't I?
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
My answers are almost exactly the same as Roper's. Except that DH wasn't divorced, just came from parents with an unhealthy marriage and he wanted to make sure to not marry someone that would help him fall into the same patterns. Also, we got married 3 weeks after we were engaged, which I believe was a few days before my birthday, not exactly ON my birthday. Other than that, pretty close. ;)
I think long engagements are a bad idea, too. Date for a long time, have a super short engagement! Once you know you're going to. . . it makes it harder not to. . .
My niece (who, as an aside, is one of the best people I've had the pleasure to know) got engaged over Christmas. She's had 2 other guys that wanted to marry her but it never felt right. After breaking up with the last one, she moved to Utah on a whim and ran into an Elder from her mission. They started dating and knew pretty quick that they were "it" for each other. Got engaged after about 5 months, and they were going to get married in May. They decided recently to get married in March, instead. I think they're very smart for doing that.
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"There is order in the way the Lord reveals His will to mankind. . .we cannot receive revelation for someone else's stewardship." L. Tom Perry
We have this "disease" at our Institute. Basically, once people decide that they "love" each other, they get engaged. I'm ok with that, if it's really love, and it's really going to last. But because there are so many people quick to get engaged, they plan the wedding for like 5 months in advance, and end up breaking up. They've been using a ring and a date as a plan for dating seriously. That's what I feel like anyway, and my boyfriend does too (thus when we are asked "when are you gonna get married?" his response is "The second.....the second you stop asking!" It's funny.)
Luckily only 2 of the 15 couples who have become engaged this academic school year have broken up. The last few years it seemed like half of the engagements ended in break-ups.
What I've come up with in my own mind (which may or may not be correct) is that you need to have the future at least basically planned out before the engagement. At least make sure that future plans together are really possible. Even if you will have to live in poverty, make sure that you can actually afford to live in poverty. That kind of stuff. Make sure you want to raise the kids the same way, live the gospel together. I think there's more to becoming engaged than knowing you are in love and that you would like to spend the rest of your life together with that person. Even if you feel like you "know", which you very well may, you need to make sure that the future is possible, or at least that you two are both willing to work together to make the future really possible. The the engagement to wedding time can be used to plan the wedding and get temporally prepared to live together as a family. I feel like most of the spiritual preparation should happen before engagement, but should still be continuing forever I guess. Maybe it's just my logical engineering side that says all of this. Luckily I'm dating an engineer.
Anyway, thanks for the input. I just like to have other opinions than just that of my fellow single peers. I guess it mostly boils down to direction of the Spirit. It's easier to fall in love than to commit, but if prayer is in the equation you can at least have the Spirit not holding your decisions back when the timing is good. As long as you date in a way in which your relationship can be guided by the Spirit I guess you're good.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
At least make sure that future plans together are really possible. Even if you will have to live in poverty, make sure that you can actually afford to live in poverty. That kind of stuff. Make sure you want to raise the kids the same way, live the gospel together. I think there's more to becoming engaged than knowing you are in love and that you would like to spend the rest of your life together with that person.
Very wise. Love certainly helps, but it does not a marriage make.
How long had you been dating your spouse before you knew he/she was the one that you would marry?
That is a hard one to pin down. First, the spirit gave me a kick in the pants to date her in the first place. I was sitting behind her in institute when I got this overwhelming prompting that I needed to ask her out. I didn't even know who she was. It took me some time to get up the nerve to ask her out. By that time I knew I had danced with her at a youth dance but had originally thought she was a little wild for my tastes.
I wasn't in the marriage mode of thinking when we dated before my mission...because I knew I was going on a mission. Upon returning from my mission I was still on hold marriage-wise because she had stated before I went that if a guy loved her, he would wait for her to return from her mission. Little did I know she had changed her thinking while I was on my mission. I was having a hard time thinking about anything else other than her after I returned home. It struck me how hard it would be to see her go when she got her mission call (she put her papers in before I returned from my mission). So, a few days later while driving her home from a singles fireside I asked her. I should have waited until her parents had bought her luggage.
How long had you been dating before you were engaged, and how long was the engagement?
We dated for about 7 months before my mission. Wrote to each other for 2 years (no, she wasn't "waiting" for me). Dated for another month and a half when I got home from my mission and got engaged for two weeks before getting married and then left for Ricks a week after that.
At what point did you know that life's choices had finally led you to someone you could spend eternity with?
Well, we met at a good place to be - Institute. I had purposely decided to date only members of the Church (due to family experience). That meant few dates for me (read - none). There seemed to be an age gap in my Stake for those dateable in my age range. I figured if I didn't date before my mission, I would when I went to Ricks.
Were there complications that kept you and your spouse-to-be from getting engaged? (e.g. finances, school, mother-in-law, etc.)
Nope. At least, not other than my wife-to-be's mission call.
I gave a living ordinances recommend for a young man to get married next month. I basically told him not to be alone with her until they get married two weeks from now. He also had me give him a blessing to be strong until then. He's a great kid and I think they'll make it.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
While on my mission, my wife-to-be was proposed to 2-3 times while she was going to Ricks. These guys "knew" she was the one after the first date. One thing she knew after the first date was that they were full of it.
One thing I learnt from going to all those firesides, efy, education week, etc. talks as a youth is that, for most people, there isn't only one person that they could be happy with. There are many candidates that you could make a happy celestial marriage with. There may be some cases where the Lord intended two specific people to get married, but I think that's rare. In most cases, if someone seems like the type of person you could make a celestial marriage with, despite their faults, then go for it (after much prayer, of course).
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen! - Samuel Adams
arbilad wrote: One thing I learnt from going to all those firesides, efy, education week, etc. talks as a youth is that, for most people, there isn't only one person that they could be happy with. There are many candidates that you could make a happy celestial marriage with. There may be some cases where the Lord intended two specific people to get married, but I think that's rare. In most cases, if someone seems like the type of person you could make a celestial marriage with, despite their faults, then go for it (after much prayer, of course).
Very true. I'm one of those people who could probably have married just about any LDS girl and been happy. I guess when one came along though that the Lord knew would tollerate me then He let me know.
My (imperfect) theory is that life is like a Choose Your Own Adventure book. There are ultimately many choices that we make, and depending on our choices leads us to different endings. Our individual choices will lead us to someone else who is having individual choices that are eventually leading them to us. Then you make the ultimate choice and get married. There are far more options than we may even see based on the choices we make, but eventually our choices lead us to someone we are ready for who just happens to be ready for us.
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Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.
— Oscar Wilde
I really like that perspective, Glumirk. For myself, I've nver been a believer of the "one true soulmate" theory. I believe that there are many potential matches, and since loves grows with sacrifice, two righteous people can build an eternal love even if at first they don't feel that they are each other's "one true soulmate."
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The ability to qualify for, receive, and act on personal revelation is the single most important skill that can be acquired in this life. - Julie Beck
Wanting to know you're "meant to be together" before you marry, is a bit like wanting to know if everything's gonna work out, before you actually have to work out... I've never been fond of the idea that there's just one person out there for you, on the contrary, I think there're plenty of people out there and God lets you CHOOSE one person on whom you get dedicate your life's work and passion and love... And likewise your spouse does the same... and imo, if both spouse and self BOTH choose to dedicate one's hearts to each other, and it is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise--no force can rend it asunder.
So it has the appearance of predestination, because of the choice made together. In a way it's kind like a funky paradoxical timetravel thing, because one might argue--hey! those two were meant to be together... and heck, with God anything's possible...
--Ray
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I'm not slow; I'm special. (Don't take it personally, everyone finds me offensive. Yet somehow I manage to live with myself.)
Too many LDS singles grew up watching Saturday's Warrior and are worried that they may have promised something in the pre-existence. And then they worry if this person or that person could be the right one blah, blah, blah their still single at 35. Make a decision that you think you can live with. A lot of the other stuff is just meaningless window dressing in life. I've heard so many LDS singles with lists of this and that for their future spouse. The guys want Barbie with a Testimony and the girls want an RM with a Masters Degree in engineering, expensive home, etc. I think if many of these guys and girls are way to picky. Then the girls start telling themselves the stupid fruit on the tree story to make themselves feel better as the higher fruit when maybe there is another problem.
A spirit you can change Now it's been done before But a tabernacle that's condemned Goes on forever more Now it's a well known fact That if you want to find The perfect girl to match your dreams You've got to keep in mind...
Forever is a long long time. Forever is a long long time. So when you take her to the temple Just remember it's eternal. Forever is a long long time.
You know, by the time we add on all the unusual (won't say peculiar, cuz then it hints at truth based) thought patterning we get from such literary hits as Saturday's Warrior and My Turn On Earth and Star Child and _______ (fill in the blank for LDS musical / comedy / melodrama) to the less than precise viewpoint of romance and relationships from the Disney feature length animated Princess films we and our children all grow up on, it is a wonder any of us make it past the honeymoon...
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
Hear Hear! Cat is so right. Don't even get me started on how disney flicks have convinced people that cows, dogs, and deer somehow think, feel, and act like people.
Just for kicks, I found the stupid apple analogy:
"Women are like apples on trees. The best ones are at the top of the tree . Most men don't want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they sometimes take the apples from the ground that aren't as good, but easy. The apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, they're amazing. They just have to wait for the right man to come along, the one who is brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree."
I don't know who ever came up with this load of poo crystals but it is so funny.
Whenever I hear this I think of some YW leader telling the girls in the ward who don't get asked to dance that this is the reason. Of course it could be because their viens flow with ice water and they treat people badly. Or it could be because you need to take a shower and use some soap. If I hear this anology one more time I think I'll pull my hair out.
So I created my own version: Women are like apples on trees. Some are blemished, some are sour, some have worms, some are deformed, some are rotten, some tainted by foreign objects, some contain harmful chemicals, and some are fine. The best apples may be anywhere on the tree but the trick is to find the apple that is in good shape and worm free without breaking the bank. Since the man is limited to only one apple at a time because of the law and the risk of the apple turning on him, he has to be careful which one he chooses. He doesn't want to end up with a rotten apple, a deformed apple, or one with worms. A little blemish might be O.K. if he is certain the fruit isn't tainted by chemicals, worms, or other problems that one would find very distasteful. So the guy looks carefully at the apples, there are so many that are rotten, full of worms, and tainted with chemicals that he soon grows tired and figures that it would be easier to order an apple out of a catalog. Soon he lucks out and finds a decent apple and focuses all his attention on it not caring anymore about any other apples because frankly, he is just frackin tired of looking at bad apples, way too tired to go get a ladder and start looking all over the place. Even some of the apples on the ground look more appealing than some on the tree. They're ripe and may have a bruise or two but at least there aren't any worms yet. So he grabs a hold of the apple runs home. Meanwhile the bad apples start whining and complaining that they should be picked too because they are just as good if not better than that no good apple that was picked even though the picked apple used to be their friend and even went out of it's way to be kind to the other apples. A few of the poisoned apples even go so far as to try and knock some of the other apples off the tree so as to make themselves more noticeable to the next apple picker. Eventually, the bad apples are ground up into cattle feed because no one can stomach their worms, pesticides, and rotten cores and they are dumped into the trough still complaining about those other apples that got picked. Now that's an analogy they should use in Young Womens.
Don't forget to include the part about the apples that make it pretty clear to the apple pickers that they really don't want to be picked because they are destined for a greater picker... and those apples where the farmer and the tree don't let the picker near because he isn't worthy of such a fine apple...
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It seems to me the only thing you've learned is that Caesar is a "salad dressing dude."
If I read that analogy at Girls Camp this June, they would tie me to a rail and haul me away.
I'm glad I just finally got a ladder, climbed up to the tippy top and found the most fabulous apple in the world.
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no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing... the truth of God will go forth till it has penetrated every website, sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done
Cat Herder wrote: Don't forget to include the part about the apples that make it pretty clear to the apple pickers that they really don't want to be picked because they are destined for a greater picker... and those apples where the farmer and the tree don't let the picker near because he isn't worthy of such a fine apple...
Sorry, I guess I'll have to amend the story. Those parts definitely need to be in it. I like the part about the apple being destined to be picked by a greater picker.
Besides, outside the church, a large number of folks have "consumated" the relationship already prior to getting engaged...
